[Note: Interview conducted before David's speech and the Interactive Achievement Awards.]

GameDaily BIZ: So first of all, how does it feel to be a GameDaily BIZ Person of the Year?

David Jaffe: Right, umm... Gosh, I feel so underpaid now when you put it like that. You know, it was cool. I didn't even know what it meant at first because someone wrote me, "Oh you're the #5 Person of the Year," and I was like, "What are you talking about?" And finally later in the day because you're on my favorites list, so I finally got around to clicking on the story and was like "Oh, that's what they were talking about." It's cool, it's very neat. What an honor considering that before God of War came out nobody knew who the hell I was, and now here I am right below Ken Kutaragi [on your list]; I'll take that honor.

BIZ: At what point in your life were you sure you wanted to make video games for a living?

DJ: [brief pause] You know what? To be perfectly honest, every game I work on, when it's over I question if that's what I want to do.

BIZ: Why's that?

DJ: Well, I grew up playing games and I always loved games, but every game so far that I've done there's been something that I've been trying to prove, in terms of achieve in the context of the interactive space of the game. And every time I'm finished with that, it's kind of like "I'm done now." I don't feel that I have to do this as a career; it's more something I feel more driven to do. And so every time I finish a game eventually a new kind of passion or question that I really want to answer will come up and it's like "Ok, I'm going to stay to finish that game." So, I don't know if I've ever had a point where I've said, "Oh this is what I really want to do with my whole life" because I've never had that kind of epiphany. It's more like, "I really want to do this game because of this" and then I move on. And it just happens that the next thing that really interests me is "Oh here's another game that I really want to see if I can do this."

BIZ: Interesting. What would you want to do or what do you think you'd be doing if designing games wasn't an option?

DJ: Realistically I think I'd be doing something in a creative field; I don't know if it would be trying to write scripts or write comic books or maybe being a comic book editor, not that there would be lots of money in that but I'd still enjoy it. You know, maybe designing websites, making movies, something like that. I'd like to be... my fantasy job would be to be a spin instructor. Isn't that crazy? [laughs] I just really like spinning a lot... it sounds so lame but I've had this good spin instructor, not that you can tell from my God of War waste—40 pounds overweight...

BIZ: Well you are wearing a triathlon heart rate monitor...

DJ: This is from my wife and I think it's wishful thinking. I was in such good shape before God of War started... but anyway so I really dig spinning a lot and I've had some great spin instructors that have really just been inspiring. I almost look at it like my church; it's like a religious [experience]. So part of me in my dream job, not that I'd be able to make a living at it, would be to sort of do that kind of work.

BIZ: During the development process where do you get inspiration from?

DJ: Umm, it changes a lot but the last couple of games I've worked on, it's definitely been movies that I loved. Right now I'm really inspired by the idea or question of, "What is the medium capable of?" And I think what it's been is that I've been so inspired by movies the last few games I've done, but I've realized at the end of the day that those inspirations are really quite shallow and irrelevant when it comes to what the gameplay experience actually is. And so that's kind of taken me to a new place in terms of inspiration.

Now what I want to find out is through actual gameplay, can we create games that emulate the movie experience from a gameplay standpoint? Everybody does it from a visual standpoint or a surface standpoint or an effects standpoint, but everybody says, "Oh I want to make a movie that feels like a Jerry Bruckheimer film." But they don't actually make a game that feels like a Jerry Bruckheimer film; it ends up being a lot of surface stuff that doesn't resonate at the mechanical level. I'm really excited to find out, "Can play mechanics actually emulate something more than just play mechanics?" Can they actually make you feel the way you feel when you watch a movie versus using the surface stuff of a movie, which is what most games do?

BIZ: In a recent post on your blog you complained about cinematics in games. High Voltage designer David Rodriguez also recently wrote about cinematics ruining games. How are cinematics taking away from the experience in your view?

DJ: Well I think what happens is the brain is somewhere when you're playing a game; when you're engaged in a good game or any kind of challenge... anything when you're pushing yourself to achieve something that's a little difficult, and that brain space is so different than when you're watching a movie or watching a TV show that if you just actually sit—I don't know if you meditate or anything like that—but it allows you to sort of see what your brain is really doing. And if you actually see that shift that occurs when you're engaged in a video game and then suddenly you stop and you watch a movie it doesn't feel like it's cinematic, it doesn't feel like you're in this experience. It feels like you've been sleeping in a warm bed and someone comes and yanks the covers off you... It just means these two things don't really go well together in terms of what a game is, and so I'm a big believer in getting away from cinemas.

Some games I appreciate that they need them from the standpoint of what they're trying to achieve but I'm a lot more excited about getting into games these days that don't need that aspect. Some games will—if we continue to make God of War games—because of what they are I definitely see those being a part of them, but the other games I'm working on I think there'll be no cinemas allowed.

BIZ: So did you not originally want cinematics in God of War? For me, the cinematics in that game were really enjoyable and helped tell Kratos' story beautifully...

DJ: I don't disagree that they were really good cinemas and they added to the game. The problem is we're not embracing what makes our medium different; a lot of us don't even think about it. If you really stop and think about the gameplay and the mechanics, that is what makes our medium our medium; that is what makes our medium special. And as good as these cinemas can be in these games—it's not because I'm like a purist and I'm like, "Oh, it's all about the gameplay!"—I'm genuinely looking out for the player's best experience. If you look at the Nintendo, which I think a lot of people would argue make some of the best games on the planet, there are very, very, very few cinemas in first-party Nintendo titles because they are focused on the interactive experience.

If we need these crutches from other mediums in order to make our medium stronger, then I think we're doing something wrong. I think we need to really spend more time and more energy learning about the interactive experience and learning how to make that better and more emotive and more impactful, and less time sort of stealing from other mediums that really ultimately aren't helping out our medium. Again it's not a purist thing, it's not this elitist thing; it really is I think games are better when you stay in that headspace of being engaged in the mechanic and you get away from distracting and interrupting.

BIZ: Looking back at God of War, what if anything would you most want to change in its design?

DJ: Well the really bad level towards the end, the Hades level that we just didn't have time to change, which was much hated by many players and I would love to see that change. But you know what? I had a great opportunity from Sony and almost unlimited budget, unlimited time, a great team. I mean this really is the game I always wanted to make and there's very little that I'm not happy with, so I'm very happy with what it ended up being.

BIZ: After getting GoW to market and seeing how well received it was, how did you feel? Were you surprised by all the love?

DJ: Well there's two questions. How did I feel? Surprisingly I felt very little. I felt kind of numb to it. And a lot of it is because—I was thinking about this because somebody else asked me this—whenever you do anything in your life, I think (this is just my stupid 34-year-old philosophy, who knows if it's real?) my gut is telling me that whenever you do anything from a place of genuine intuition that feels right for you the side effects and the results of that really don't affect you in a good way or a negative way because God of War is what I wanted to make since I was a 10-year-old kid and that's what I finally got to work with this very talented team to make. And so, I didn't feel like, "Yes, this is great. We have a hit!" I felt like I didn't really care if it was a hit or a bomb. I mean I cared from my career's standpoint but personally I didn't care. And when it was a hit, it was like, "Oh okay, that's pretty cool." Ultimately I would have done the same thing anyway because it really was driven from what I feel is a pretty pure place.

In terms of "was I surprised?" we had days on the title where it was just sh*t, it was just awful, and we had days where it was it was like, "Man this is gonna be sweet." So by the time it shipped we had probably a good 50/50 split of days that were bad and days that were good, and so when we put it out there I really had no clue. There were days where I thought we would get like 7's out of 10's and we'd do okay and there were days where I thought we had the Game of the Year, so I never really knew when it shipped what it was going to do.

BIZ: So will Kratos or a game in the GoW franchise make a PS3 appearance?

DJ: Right now because the game has been out for a year but we're still selling really well at full price, my understanding is that Sony is looking at the franchise and assessing if this is something we want to continue. I think we as a development team have a lot to do with Kratos in terms of we have more stories to tell and more adventures to send players on, but I think right now we're just sitting back and kind of seeing what the market is telling us in terms of, "do they want another title?" and if they do, "what do they want in that title?" If the answers end up being yes then I think it's safe to say that we'd probably go there, but right now we don't know yet.

BIZ: Do you think the PS3 hardware will give you more of that emotive power that you were talking about?

DJ: [pause] It's definitely going to make a difference if we have the right people in the industry who actually know how to utilize that power in a creative, emotional way. But I feel that that power is already available on the PSP, on the PS1, on the PS2; the reality of it is we have very few people in the industry who really understand anything more than making really fun games, which is a great thing to know and it's a great industry to be in because of that but the question becomes, "Can games be more?" I think they can, but I don't think they can unless we start to nurture in people to this business that really do look at games as more than just sort of commercial blockbuster entertainment and actually start thinking about games as being something that can be emotional.

BIZ: In an earlier blog post you let it be known that you considered stopping blogging altogether. What about blogging made you feel that way?

DJ: I've really enjoyed having a blog; I've enjoyed connecting with people who enjoy the games we do at Sony and I've also enjoyed being able to talk to people in less of a public relations, spinny kind of way. I'm really not a fan of a lot of the game journalism that's out there because I love what they do in terms of reviews and previews but I do feel that they don't really cover—they don't push after game creators as much as they should, and they don't cover the industry in a way that I think is more interesting and relevant. I mean I buy the magazines like everybody else, and I can flip through a magazine that I spent $6.95 for in about 5 minutes. Where's the features? Where's the content? So, I like the blog because I can communicate in a way that isn't so buttoned up and giving selling points and bullet points.

But I did consider stopping—and my speech here at D.I.C.E. I think is going to be relatively sh**ty as well because I think I'm at a place where I came out from God of War with all the "I want to talk about the title, I'm excited about it, blah, blah, blah" and I'm kind of now really in the development phase of a new project, so that's where my headspace is and I'm not really that interested anymore in talking about it; I just want to do it. And I think once I get 80% of the way through I'm going to be in that space where I'll want to talk to everybody about what I'm doing again, but right now I'm in this space where I really just want to go off and work with the team and make a game. That's why I considered stopping blogging, but the minute I posted I want to stop it was like, "Oh, I don't think it's right to stop." So I'm not sure where I'm at with it right now.

BIZ: If you didn't work for Sony would you want to design anything for the Nintendo Revolution and that remote controller?

DJ: Yeah I love what I've seen of the Revolution so far; I haven't played it. But I'm very impressed and respectful and grateful that they're bringing something that innovative to the market. I'm looking forward to it. Would I want to design something for it? I don't know if I'm that kind of designer; I don't know if I'm a nuts and bolts mechanic designer. I'd like to take a crack at it maybe one day but frankly from what I've seen right now on the PS3—and I just came from a meeting a few days ago where I got to see a bunch of new PS3 games from first-party in development—I'm so excited about the ability to utilize that processing power and utilize that graphics power and try to merge that hardware with some of the more emotional aspects... and I think that's really only going to be capable on a system like PS3, whereas the Revolution I love and I think it's very cool. I think it's going to make more "gamey" games, but I don't want to make just "gamey" games and so the PS3 I think is really where I want to be right now. So I'm happy to be employed by Sony.

BIZ: Today Reggie Fils-Aime said that basically 80% of the market has been basically ignored by the game development community and Nintendo's mission is to make games that attract new people to the industry and people who have outgrown it. What is your take? Is the game development community too focused on the hardcore?

DJ: Well, the word hardcore is somewhat... you know, what is hardcore? There are people within the hardcore spectrum that hate God of War because it's too easy. I tuned GoW and designed GoW to appeal to the casual gamer within the definition of people who play games regularly. So my mom can't pick it up and play it, but someone who plays games 3,4,5 hours a week, that's who I made GoW for. So, are there tons of other gamers out there who aren't being served? That seems to me like a fairly accurate statement.

BIZ: [interrupts] You could make "Goddess of War" for your mom or sister or something...

DJ: I guess I don't think about it that way. I don't really think about the market all that much. I think about the game and I think about what I'm trying to do. If I came to work everyday and was like, "Alright, what's my brand? What's my market?" ... F**k that, man. You can make more money thinking that way in other industries; I don't want to think that way.

BIZ: You mentioned being a script writer or comic book writer earlier. If you're a great writer do you think you could be a good game designer without the technical skills? If someone wanted to get into the video game industry, for example a script writer in Hollywood, can they realistically do that?

DJ: Well sure, anyone can do anything if that's what they want to do. I think the key thing is, and the thing that's lacking, is that people don't really study and understand interactivity. That's what you really need to be able to do; you need to understand what the player is feeling when he's playing that game, whether it's a simple Revolution game, a complex Xbox 360 game, or whether it's a game meant to appeal to a lot of people, enough people don't analyze and understand and study the player's interactive experience... I've worked with Hollywood script writers and comic book writers and it's never been the world's best experience; it's been good because they have great ideas, but ultimately a lot of them haven't sat down and really started to understand what it means about interactivity that makes it fun. And unless they have that they can't really contribute in a way that is relevant and significant in my opinion.

BIZ: How do you like developing for the PSP? Is it more challenging in some ways to make a good handheld game?

DJ: I don't see the difference. All I think about is, "Hey, I can play this on the go. I can play this in bed."

BIZ: Well, the average PSP session would tend to be shorter, so wouldn't that affect how you develop for the portable versus a console?

DJ: A) I haven't found that; and B) because of the PSP sleep function I'm not a designer that thinks, "Ok let's design in 10-minute chunks for PSP." I don't think about that. The sleep function is there and I'm ok with designing a one-hour level if you can stop it whenever you want or be able to save whenever you want. I just find myself designing something that I would want to play. I don't allow myself to get into that much analysis of the process because A) it stops being fun; and B) I think the gamer would be able to pick up on the fact that you're pretty much going off a checklist of, "These are the things that we need to make a hit." And I have no interest in doing that.

BIZ: Lastly, before we wrap this up I have to ask, are game journalists part of this industry or not in your view?

DJ: [pause] They are and they aren't. They are not part of the industry in the sense that I feel... My biggest problem with game journalists is that I wish game journalists would embrace their own industry. I wish they'd say, "We're journalists." I wish they'd say, "We're in the publishing industry and our job is to cover the game industry and push the game industry and be honest with the game industry" versus I've seen a lot of game journalists who are so wrapped up in the game industry that they really feel part of the industry and I think that's damaging both to them in terms of the way the public views their product—there's a very negative sense of game journalism being sort of fanboyish and not honest, good journalism—and I think it hurts us.

Look, if I make a shooting game... [instead of saying] "The graphics suck, the controls are suspect"... there was this one great piece of journalism I saw in GameSpot, which was a review of Freedom Fighters from EA which was a pretty decent game, but this guy's like, "You know what, you're doing this very politically charged story; nowhere in this game are you dealing with the politics of the situation. Nowhere in this game when you have all the opportunity to question what's happening in our country and you just made an action game. What's wrong with you guys?" And I think that was great. I love the fact that a games reviewer actually wasn't just talking about graphics and controls. He was saying, "Hey, let's do better guys." And so, when I talk about journalists not being part of the industry, it's not from an elitist, snobbish place; I'm calling it like it is and you know, be proud of your industry.

BIZ: There's been some controversy lately with game magazines and outlets being openly criticized for having their reviews bought. Is that something in your experience that you've run into?

DJ: The biggest issue is that I think we should have paid more for the God of War review. I don't think we paid as much as we should have because we could have outdone Resident Evil 4 [laughs]. No, my experience is I haven't seen that but I've heard a lot about that. I would be surprised because I do think that Sony is a very honest company; I've been at Sony for 13 years and I've seen that through and through every decision they've made. But I have heard companies do that and it wouldn't surprise me, and you know, shame on the companies and shame on the journalists that accept it. It's like, what the f**k's wrong with you people? Be honest, how do you sleep at night if that's what you're doing; that's just sh*t.

BIZ: Thanks so much for your time today, David.